» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: Help Me Understand Custom Fields/Tags< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
crackhead70
Board Newbie



Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: April 2011
Posted: April 26 2011,05:21

I'm hoping a patient soul will explain this to me....

For certain types of music, e.g., classical, "regular" mp3 tags don't cut it--listeners want to know the movement, the conductor, the opus, etc.  

I have a similar problem with flamenco.  I would like to be able to capture the following information:

Genre:  Flamenco
Subgenre:  Alegrias, Bulerias, Soleares, etc.
Cantaor:  name of singer
Guitarrista:  name of guitarist
Percusion:  name of cajon player/palmeros
Collection:  there are "anthologies" of different eras of flamenco, e.g., "La Epoca Dorada del Flamenco" or "Grands Cantaores du Flamenco"; each anthology comprises a number of CD's, all with different singers, etc.

I've Googled, lurked on boards, researched, experimented, and I'm coming up blank.  Can anyone help?
Back to top
Profile PM 
dsperber
Board Fan



Group: Members
Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 2008
Posted: April 26 2011,10:07

Don't know what to suggest, other than to put the information you want to retain in the "comment" field of the tag, as generic information rather than specific tag-field information.

Of course the comment field is typically NOT presented by a music player (neither PC-based nor portable hand-held), although it is visible when going into "file info" using say Winamp or MP3Tag.

Not really a great choice to hold this specific info, but if you do want to store it in the music file itself I would think this is probably your only hope.


As your research has probably, revealed, the actual tag fields supported by ID3 (various evolutions) do not provide the content-specific details you've identified.  This Wiki page provides an excellent summary of ID3.description of ID3 tag fields

Also, this informal "specs" document from the "ID3 organization" itself from back in 2000-2003 supports what got implemented. as ID3 tag specs
Back to top
Profile PM 
crackhead70
Board Newbie



Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: April 2011
Posted: April 27 2011,02:49

Thanks for your quick and helpful reply.  I now know that the Comments field won't be useful to me, because the reason I'm trying to organize my tags this way is for teaching.  When I'm teaching a dance class, I need to be able to pull up all alegrias or all soleares, for example.  If mp3 players don't read that field, there's no point in keeping any data there.

I guess I need to adjust my expectations.

What about this:  Instead of one Flamenco genre with many subgenres, could/should I make each type of dance its own genre?  E.g.:

Genre: Alegrias
Genre:  Verdiales
Genre:  Siguiriyas

etc.

Or is "subgenre" a valid field that will be recognized and displayed properly as follows?

Genre:  Flamenco
Subgenre:  Alegrias
Subgenre:  Verdiales

etc.

I think if I can accomplish this much, I would still be a happy camper.
Back to top
Profile PM 
dsperber
Board Fan



Group: Members
Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 2008
Posted: April 27 2011,09:56

I've never seen sub-genre.  Is there such a tag field??

Certainly I've never seen anything but genre presented anywhere.

However your use of the genre tag field to provide the sub-divisions you're looking for is a perfect solution, if you don't really need it for the flamenco category.  If all your music is flamenco anyway, then why not re-purpose the genre tag to provide the "sub-genre" value (i.e. flamenco style, as you've differentiated them)?  Sounds fine to me.

Then the "genre" tag field really can be considered a "playlist", to group like music.

You can enter anything you like in the genre field.  You're not limited to just the standard normal music industry options.
Back to top
Profile PM 
crackhead70
Board Newbie



Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: April 2011
Posted: May 01 2011,21:41

I thought subgenre was a valid tag only because when I Google something like "mp3 tag subgenre", a few links come up containing discussions.  Of the most interest to me was this link [http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=50721.0], in which posters discuss "styles" and "moods".  

Is it possible to have genre=flamenco and then tag the different types of flamenco as either moods or styles?  E.g.:

Genre:Flamenco
Style (or Mood):Alegrias
Style (or Mood):=Bulerias

I think this would give me what I'm looking for.  Will a Zune pick up on a style or mood tag?  

I do appreciate all time spent answering my questions.  Thank you![/B][B]
Back to top
Profile PM 
dsperber
Board Fan



Group: Members
Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 2008
Posted: May 02 2011,17:51

Here are the official tag fields as understood by the MP3Tag program.

http://help.mp3tag.de/main_tags.html

Note that at least some of the fields you care about are in ID3v2.4.  But most players don't support anything but ID3v1 and ID3v2.3.


Here are the defined fields in MP3 tags (as presented by Winamp's file info).  There's no such thing as mood, style, etc.  Yes, this seems like useful information, but there are no such formal tag fields in ID3v1 or ID3v2 tags:

(1)  basic info:



(2)  artwork:



(3)  ID3v1 tag fields:



(4)  ID3v2 tag fields:

MP3Tag fields

Edited by dsperber on May 02 2011,17:56
Back to top
Profile PM 
crackhead70
Board Newbie



Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: April 2011
Posted: May 03 2011,04:22

Aha.  In my reading, I do remember something about 2.4 not being an upgrade, so to speak, and that many players didn't recognize 2.4-exclusive tags.

I think for now all I can and should do is just make each subtype of flamenco a separate genre and leave well enough alone.

(Hopefully) one of my last questions:  On the link you provided, I see many tags that appear to be legitimately recognized, such as INVOLVEDPEOPLE, but that do not show up in Winamp or Media Monkey.  Are these considered "extended" tags?  Can you configure those programs to show those tags?  Do the main tagging programs all provide these fields to put data into?

I'm especially interested in INVOLVEDPEOPLE, because that would seem to be just what I need in order to make note of the guitarist, singer, and dancer.  I know I can put it in the Comments field, but you've pointed out that mp3 players don't recognize/display that field.  Theoretically, with INVOLVEDPEOPLE, I should be able to play all songs by a certain guitarist, for example, right?

Again, thank you for taking the time to read and respond.
Back to top
Profile PM 
dsperber
Board Fan



Group: Members
Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 2008
Posted: May 04 2011,04:06

Well, it doesn't matter if you take the trouble to add any of these extended fields (e.g. involvedpeople) to the tag data for a file, and customize MP3Tag's displayed and modifyable tag fields to include this.  If no media player program or device is aware of this extended field then the usability could be limited to MP3Tag.

Now a portable music players which supports "browse by tag field" is very likely only going to support the basic common ID3v1 and ID3v2.2 tag fields, like [Artist], [Genre], [Year], etc...  so obviously even if you've stored involvedpeople in the tags, you won't be able to utilize that data for playback purposes.

Now, if you want, you can "filter" the files presented with MP3Tag.  And, you can ask it to "recurse down" through all sub-folders.  So the "filter" you specify can be used to browse your entire music collection (starting from the highest level parent folder, and looking down through all sub-folder).

That means if you want, you could browse your entire music collection looking for specific "involvedpeople", using that extended field in your "filter" expression.  The list presented by MP3Tag would be only those music files you were looking for... from all of your folders.

Now MP3Tag isn't a "player"program, but if you right-click on one or more selected files (e.g. if you selected every file presented in that "filtered" list of music files specifying a particular "involvedpeople" value) you can select PLAY from the popup menu, and your the whole list of selected files will be enqueued into the default MP3/FLAC player program (e.g. Winamp) and playing will start.  

So you could use MP3Tag as your "player driver", browsing through your music files for what you want and then submitting the list of files you want to play to Winamp (etc.).

Furthermore, from what I read (in the HELP) you can use MP3Tag to create an M3U playlist from the files selected... when you update tag fields.  So if I understand it correctly you could start from your "filtered" list, select just those files from that list you really want to create an M3U playlist for, modify one field in all of them (like a dummy operation, to modify all those files' tags simultaneously) and thus produce an M3U playlist that represents all of those files.

And since player programs understand M3U playlists, this might be a way to pre-construct collections of files from your music files using MP3Tag, that represent those music files you're particularly interested in.


Anyway, you're not going to find ordinary programs or players that can do what MP3Tag can do in this regard... especially insofar as handling all of those extended tag fields as shown in the list that MP3Tag can handle.

And the fact that MP3Tag can indirectly be your player program as well, through right-click -> PLAY, maybe you can accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, using MP3Tag as the filter driver of your player.
Back to top
Profile PM 
gavind
Board Buff



Group: Members
Posts: 30
Joined: Jan. 2013
Posted: Feb. 23 2013,21:20

Quote
That means if you want, you could browse your entire music collection looking for specific "involvedpeople", using that extended field in your "filter" expression.  The list presented by MP3Tag would be only those music files you were looking for... from all of your folders.


Thanks for that. It's really a headache trying to learn these things at a late age already.
Back to top
Profile PM 
8 replies since April 26 2011,05:21 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]